David Gardner, a renowned investor and author, is known for his insightful commentary on the world of investing. He has a knack for identifying trends and understanding the underlying forces that drive them. In this podcast episode, he is joined by C.

David Gardner: We’re going to talk about the history of games, the evolution of games, and the future of games. David Gardner: We’re going to explore the impact of games on society, culture, and the economy. David Gardner: We’re going to look at the different types of games, from board games to video games, and how they’ve evolved over time.

David Gardner: We’re going to be talking about a wide range of topics, from the latest in the world of technology to the stock market, and even some personal reflections. So, get ready for a deep dive into the world of investing. David Gardner: Now, let’s get into the main topic of today’s episode. We’re going to be discussing the concept of “Rule Breakers” and how to identify them. David Gardner: The Rule Breaker Investing podcast is all about identifying and investing in companies that are on the verge of changing the world.

**Thi Nguyen:** I’m going to disagree. **David Gardner:** Why do you disagree? **Thi Nguyen:** Because I think that’s a dangerous oversimplification. It’s a very seductive idea, but it’s not a reliable way to predict the future. **David Gardner:** I’m curious to hear your argument. **Thi Nguyen:** Well, let’s start with the fact that the future is inherently uncertain.

Thi Nguyen’s concern about the shift from process orientation to outcome orientation is a crucial point that deserves further exploration.

Thi Nguyen: I’m not sure if you’ve ever fished, but I’m sure you’ve seen the movies. You know, the ones where the angler casts a line and the fish jumps out of the water? That’s what it’s like.

That’s what we’re after. Thi Nguyen: I think it’s a really good analogy to compare meditation to fly fishing. It’s a way to access a state of being that’s more peaceful, more present, and more mindful.

The passage discusses the potential for play to become problematic, particularly in relation to collecting and obsession. It highlights the importance of recognizing the potential for play to be both enriching and problematic. **Detailed Text:**

The passage delves into the complex relationship between play and its potential for becoming problematic, particularly in the context of collecting and obsession.

Thi Nguyen and David Gardner discuss the importance of key terms and concepts in the context of investing. They highlight how these terms can be powerful building blocks for understanding and navigating the stock market. **Detailed Text:**

Thi Nguyen and David Gardner, renowned figures in the investing world, engage in a conversation that underscores the significance of fundamental concepts and terminology. Nguyen, a passionate advocate for clarity and accessibility in investing, emphasizes the importance of these terms as “big building blocks” for understanding the stock market.

You have to run the entire distance. These constraints are what make the game interesting and challenging. The concept of game goals is further elaborated by the author, who argues that they are not just about achieving a specific outcome. They are also about the process of overcoming obstacles and the journey itself.

You’re motivated by the intrinsic value of the activity itself. Striving play is playing because you want to achieve a goal, but you’re motivated by the process of play. Striving play is a more complex and nuanced form of play. It’s not just about winning or losing, it’s about the journey, the challenges, and the growth that comes with it. Striving play is about the process of learning, the development of skills, and the satisfaction of overcoming obstacles. Striving play is about the joy of the game itself, not just the outcome.

The summary discusses the difference between “striving” and “achieving” players in the context of competitive gaming. It highlights the contrasting approaches to competition, emphasizing the fleeting nature of the desire to win in the achievement players. **Key Points:**

* **Striving players:** These players are driven by a deep-seated desire to win, constantly striving for improvement and pushing their limits.

Charades is a game that involves acting out words or phrases without speaking. It’s a popular game that can be enjoyed by people of all ages. The game is often played in groups, with teams competing against each other. The goal of the game is to guess the word or phrase being acted out by the other players. The author argues that charades is not just a game of winning, but also a game of social connection and fun. The author emphasizes that the value of charades lies in the shared experience of laughter, camaraderie, and social interaction.

They want the money, the status, the recognition, the praise, the social connections, the power, or any other external reward. Extrinsic achievement play is driven by external factors, while intrinsic achievement play is driven by internal factors. Let’s take a look at some examples. Imagine a young child playing with building blocks. If they’re playing for the joy of building something, the intrinsic motivation is driving their play. They’re not focused on the end result, they’re just enjoying the process of creating. This is a classic example of intrinsic achievement play.

Thi Nguyen argues that laughter and play are not unimportant, but rather hold significant meaning. He uses the history of philosophy of art to support his claim, highlighting the vast amount of literature dedicated to serious art forms like drama and tragedy, while offering a limited amount of attention to humor. This disparity in attention suggests that laughter and play are perceived as unserious and therefore unimportant.

I was reading about the concept of “opportunity cost” and how it’s a fundamental principle in economics. Opportunity cost is the value of the next best alternative forgone when making a choice. For example, if you choose to spend your time studying for an exam, you’re giving up the opportunity to spend that time doing something else, like watching a movie or going for a walk. The opportunity cost of studying is the value of the alternative you’re giving up, which in this case, is the enjoyment of watching a movie or going for a walk.

First, is the ability to see the board and understand the position of all the pieces. Second, is the ability to think ahead, to plan, and to strategize. These are the two things that I think are essential for success in chess. David Gardner: I think that’s a great point. You’re right, chess is a game of strategy and planning. It’s not just about brute force or luck.

Thi Nguyen and David Gardner discuss the concept of zero-sumness in games. Thi Nguyen, a game developer, shares his experience writing an article about zero-sumness in games. He highlights the idea that even when players appear to be competing, they are often collaborating in a more subtle way. **Detailed Text:**

Thi Nguyen, a seasoned game developer, reminisces about his early foray into writing about games. He recalls his first article, titled “Competition is Cooperation,” which delved into the concept of zero-sumness in games.

But, if you’re playing with the right people, and you’re playing with the right game, it can be a really lovely experience. This is a powerful statement about the potential of games to channel and transform aggressive impulses. It suggests that games can be more than just entertainment; they can be powerful tools for social interaction and emotional regulation. Let’s break down the key points:

**1. Games as a safe space for aggression:**

The summary highlights the potential of games to act as a safe space for aggressive impulses.

This story is a metaphor for the kind of player G is. He’s a player who is so good that he’s almost unbeatable, and he’s always had to give other players handicaps to make the game fair. He’s not just a good player, he’s a player who is constantly pushing the boundaries of what’s possible in the game. He’s a player who is always looking for new ways to improve, and he’s never satisfied with just being good. He’s a player who is constantly striving for excellence. This story also highlights the importance of humility.

That’s a game. So, if you’re playing a game, you’re playing with the rules, you’re playing with the constraints, you’re playing with the limitations. You’re playing with the unknown.

They’re not necessarily trying to be hipster, they’re just trying to enjoy the ritual. Enjoying the process. The point is, there’s a lot more to it than just the product. It’s about the experience. It’s about the process. It’s about the connection.

The author argues that the use of games as a tool for social change is a perversion of the spirit of games. They believe that games, at their core, are about lightness, travel, and voluntary entry into alternate experiences. They emphasize the importance of intrinsic striving play, where individuals actively choose and sculpt their experiences. **Detailed Text:**

The author’s assertion that using games for social change is a perversion of their spirit is a provocative statement. It challenges the common assumption that games, with their inherent elements of fun, competition, and escapism, can be effectively harnessed for social good. The author’s perspective is rooted in a deep understanding of the fundamental nature of play.

David Gardner is a media commentator who has not read a book on how theater reporters trust in numbers. Thi Nguyen is a writer who has read such a book and can recommend it to David Gardner. They discuss the social history of how we came to over trust quantified information, even when it’s not appropriate or even when the metric is clearly bad. Nguyen also recommends an example, “Engines and Anxiety,” which examines the impact of the US News and World Report Law School rankings on legal culture.

David Gardner, a prominent figure in the field of education, highlights the dangers of imposing a standardized grading system on students. He argues that such a system, while seemingly beneficial for comparing students, ultimately leads to oversimplification and a loss of individual learning experiences. **Detailed Text:**

David Gardner, a renowned educator, has voiced his concerns about the widespread adoption of standardized grading systems in modern education.

They focus on the end result, the final product, and they forget about the journey, the process, and the steps that lead to that outcome. This is a common mistake, especially in the pursuit of success. Thi Nguyen: The problem with focusing solely on outcomes is that it can lead to a lack of motivation and a sense of dissatisfaction. You might achieve a goal, but if you don’t enjoy the process of getting there, you might not feel fulfilled. This is because the journey itself is what makes life meaningful.

It’s a device that takes a complex process, simplifies it, and delivers the output, which is a frozen meal. The device paradigm is a way of thinking about technology that emphasizes the output, the end result, and the ease of use, often at the the expense of the process, the complexity, and the social interaction that goes into creating that output. **Key Points:**

* **Technology’s Role in the Device Paradigm:** Technology, according to Thi Nguyen, is a tool that promotes the device paradigm.

I’m curious, do you think they know games? David Gardner: I think it’s a complex question. I think there’s a difference between knowing a game and understanding a game. Knowing a game is about having played it, having experience with it, and being able to describe it.

This is a core principle of game design, and it’s something that’s been around for a long time. It’s not just about making games, it’s about creating experiences. And that’s what I think is really important to understand. The core principle of game design is about shaping constraints. It’s about creating a set of rules and limitations that players must adhere to, and then using those constraints to create a compelling and engaging experience. This principle is not new, it’s been around for a long time, and it’s been used in many different forms. Think about the classic board game Monopoly, where the goal is to bankrupt your opponents.

Thi Nguyen, a researcher in the field of game theory, believes that the concept of “playing for fun” is a relatively recent phenomenon. He argues that the history of card games, particularly poker, is filled with countless variations, but these variations were never transmitted or documented. Nguyen believes that the development of modern card games, particularly poker, is a relatively recent phenomenon. He suggests that the concept of “playing for fun” is a relatively recent phenomenon.

Choice of activities is what makes games good. Choice of activities is what makes games fun. This is a very simple idea, but it’s a powerful one. It’s a fundamental principle of game design.

Art is a broad category that encompasses a wide range of artistic practices, including performance art, installation art, and video art. It’s not just about the final product, but about the creative process itself. David Gardner: So, you’ve been working on this idea of process art for a while now. What are some of the key elements that you’ve identified in this process art? What are some of the key differences between process art and object art?

This is a fascinating topic, and I’m excited to dive deeper into it. I’m particularly interested in the role of metrics in shaping the landscape of games. How do metrics influence the design, development, and even the perception of games? Let’s start with the design and development of games. Metrics play a crucial role in guiding the design choices and development process.

David Gardner: But, I think we can agree that fun is something that brings joy, excitement, and a sense of accomplishment. It’s something that makes you feel good, and it’s something that you can share with others. David Gardner: So, what are some ways to find fun?

David Gardner, a renowned entrepreneur, believes that life could be a “striving play” if all practical problems were solved. Thi Nguyen, a fellow entrepreneur, shares a similar sentiment, but with a caveat: it’s a “big if” because the world is not currently equipped to handle such a scenario. Gardner’s perspective is rooted in the idea that if we eliminate hunger, poverty, and inequality, then individuals would have the freedom to pursue their passions and interests without limitations. This freedom would allow for a life of “striving play,” where individuals are driven by a desire to learn, grow, and achieve.

I think it’s a huge opportunity. I think the six-hour workday is going to be a major trend. It’s already happening in some industries, and it’s going to continue to grow. David Gardner: So, what are the companies that are leading the charge in this trend? Thom Nguyen: Well, there are a few key players. We’ve got companies like Automattic, Zapier, and Basecamp. These are all companies that have embraced the six-hour workday and have seen significant success.

Apocalypse World, and other games like that. David Gardner: So, what are the problems with Dungeons and Dragons that you’re referring to? Thi Nguyen: Well, I think it’s a bit of a complex issue. It’s not just one thing. It’s a combination of things. But I think the biggest problem is the complexity. It’s just too much. It’s overwhelming.

David Gardner, a renowned investor, believes that corporate sponsorship of academic research is a bad investment. He argues that the relationship between corporations and academics is inherently flawed, leading to conflicts of interest and a lack of transparency. Gardner believes that corporations are motivated by profit, while academics are driven by intellectual curiosity.

There’s a certain nostalgia factor, but also a sense of community and connection. David Gardner: And what about the potential for these classic arcade games to be monetized? Can they be monetized in a way that’s sustainable and profitable? Thi Nguyen: Absolutely. There are a lot of different ways to monetize classic arcade games. You can have a subscription model, where players pay a monthly fee to access a library of classic games.

This podcast episode features a conversation between David Gardner and Thi Nguyen, two prominent figures in the stock market. David Gardner, a renowned investor and founder of The Motley Fool, shares his insights on the current market conditions and offers advice to listeners on how to navigate the volatile landscape. He emphasizes the importance of patience, discipline, and a long-term perspective.